Keywords: 29er,bike of the month,flat mount bike,gravel bike,gravel ride,superlight bike

BOTM: ORANGE IS BACK - part 3

Andy Kessler - 23-Aug-2019

orange is back and after 2 videos its now time for the beauty shots of this months WI.DE.

We have been waiting so long for that GRX group and honestly it was worth the wait. It should be available in most markets by September after a delay of many months caused by a big fire in Shimano's production facility.

As mentioned in the video this setup with the 11-46 cassette officially does not work. I have not made 1000 miles on it so far but soon will as I will build a winter commuter with it and should be able to tell you more by end of this year...

I have made a couple of 1000km on the Cane Creek seat post on another bike and once you have found your "correct elastomer" the seatpost works very well. I have taken a pretty hard elastomer as I have the "tire" for the small bumps and then the suspension seatpost only for the big ones and this combination is perfect for me.

Here is the gallery:

BOTM: ORANGE IS BACK - Part 2

BOTM: ORANGE IS BACK - Part 4

BOTM: ORANGE IS BACK - Part 1

BOTM:WI.DE.N YOUR HORIZON - Part 2

The future is WI.DE. OPEN!

Relentless Simplicity

Cape Epic part 1 - Hello Africa

Developing new models

Comments & Questions

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Hi Andy, I have my grey WI.DE. ready to build, and I can't choose between the SRAM AXS mullet build and GRX. In your opinion, are the GRX di2 levers more comfortable than the tall SRAM (which I find ugly) levers?
Thanks
Ritchie

Post #1 of 45. Posted by Ritchie on 23-Aug-2019 13:45:24 GMT in reply to blog [0<--19705]

I’m in the same boat Ritchie
I run SRAM Force 1x on my other U.P. ( use the left lever for my dropper) and SRAM Eagle on my 1 + hardtail . I’m trying to find the Ultimate 1x group for “ technical” long gravel races that we have out West.
Thx for sharing Andy, nice build
I too was going to do my WI.DE gray

Post #2 of 45. Posted by Doug on 23-Aug-2019 14:25:14 GMT in reply to post #1 [19705<--19707]

Hi Ritchey, if technical means you want a big range, then the SRAM Force/Eagle combo should get the nod. Bigger range Cassettes and one sprocket extra so the jumps aren't any bigger.

Post #5 of 45. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 26-Aug-2019 09:52:04 GMT in reply to post #2 [19707<--19714]

Which way are you leaning Doug?

Post #7 of 45. Posted by Ritchie on 26-Aug-2019 12:02:01 GMT in reply to post #2 [19707<--19718]

I’m thinking Gerard has hit the proverbial nail on the head. I would like to hear what Andy has to say as well, I personally don’t know of very many cyclists that have the expertise these guys possess, they’ve pretty much been there, done that.
I do have mitigating factors, I love the 1X set up with a dropper ..... If and when they come out with a 27.2 dropper compatible with the SRAM AXS, I’m all in.
I like simplicity, and clean cockpits, and of course I promise my wife this will be the last custom build because surely this will be the perfect build and I’ll be content .

Post #11 of 45. Posted by Doug on 26-Aug-2019 23:23:16 GMT in reply to post #7 [19718<--19724]

That 27.2mm AXS dropper won't take long, Andy has already been riding a prototype for several months.

Post #12 of 45. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 27-Aug-2019 05:12:11 GMT in reply to post #11 [19724<--19725]

Great News Gerard, thank you.
That firms up my commitment to move forward with my SRAM AXS build.
Can’t wait to hear Andy’s feedback once he gets back from Burning Man.

Post #16 of 45. Posted by Doug on 27-Aug-2019 10:43:16 GMT in reply to post #12 [19725<--19730]

Hi Doug, If you follow my blogs then you know I am a old conservative guy... I have honestly never been a huge fan of electronics because of simplicity. I always said as long as there are cables/junction boxes etc I will stay mechanical. Then Sram came up with ETAP and I thought we are getting closer. Now with the NEW RED/FORCE/Eagle combination all starts to make a lot of sense even more with the dropper. It so nice to have one system that can do it all and have no cables to worry about. The only thing I am missing from SRAM is a somehow smaller cassette. Something like a 10-46 or 44. I think that's the missing thing but I am sure it will come. So to summarise I like both. As Gerard mentioned if you want to go electronic then you almost have to go SRAM those days. But I am just building myself a winter gravel commuter with the GRX mechanical groupset and 11-46 cassette in the back. I think thats a very nice groupset where you get a lot of value for the money...

Post #20 of 45. Posted by Andy Kessler on 28-Aug-2019 04:18:58 GMT in reply to post #16 [19730<--19734]

Andy, of course I follow your Blogs, Twitter , Snapchat, Instagram, and YouTube channel.
I must be an old conservative guys as well, I couldn’t agree more with your assessments
As always Thank you for your invaluable input, and your time, there’s a reason I have 3 OPEN bicyles.
Cheers to you guys

Post #24 of 45. Posted by Doug on 28-Aug-2019 15:16:01 GMT in reply to post #20 [19734<--19739]

I'm not Andy but have used both. I think the answer there is very personal. For me both are comfortable, the SRAM I like a little better when resting on the drops, the Shimano is brilliant when reaching for the brake lever from the hood position. Somehow the levers feel closer and at a better angle.

To me in the end the biggest differentiator is that the GRX is 11-speed. for the mechanical group, that's fine, as all the competitors are also 11-speed. But for the Di2, which is very similarly priced to the SRAM AXS group, that's a shame.

Post #4 of 45. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 26-Aug-2019 09:50:32 GMT in reply to post #1 [19705<--19713]

Thanks Gerard, I agree that it's a shame that GRX di2 isn't 12 speed, especially with the WI.DE. being 1x only. It's the only reason I haven't already gone with GRX. Looks like my decision doesn't get any easier!

Post #6 of 45. Posted by Ritchie on 26-Aug-2019 12:01:21 GMT in reply to post #4 [19713<--19717]

To be honest, for me 11-sp is enough, I like it on my bike and don't find myself longing for the 12-sp. But I think it's *psychologically* difficult for a lot of people to go with 11-sp electronic when there is 12-sp electronic now.

Post #13 of 45. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 27-Aug-2019 05:13:46 GMT in reply to post #6 [19717<--19726]

The GRX group comes in at nearly half the price of the SRAM Eagle/Force option for me after doing some maths.

Post #9 of 45. Posted by Ritchie on 26-Aug-2019 18:22:15 GMT in reply to post #4 [19713<--19722]

I think the Eagle uncharge right now is a bit off on several websites. Going from all Force to Force/Eagle adds 30% to the cost, that's not right. So when that is settled, the price may not be equal but not a huge difference either, relative to the complete bike price.

Post #14 of 45. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 27-Aug-2019 05:15:14 GMT in reply to post #9 [19722<--19727]

I can only find one shop that sells the Force levers and calipers separately, and they're really expensive. I might wait a few more weeks to see if prices come down a bit like you said Gerard.

Post #17 of 45. Posted by Ritchie on 27-Aug-2019 15:28:44 GMT in reply to post #14 [19727<--19731]

Hi Ritchie, actually yes I think the GRX levers are more comfortable. The have a bit a wider area to rest your hand on and there hoods don't stick out as far as the SRAM or the GRX mechanical (which aesthetically is a plus but then you can say also technically its better if you ride downhill that you have a higher hood-but then you can say in steep or technical downhills you go down into the drop anyway...). So aesthetically 1. GRX DI2, 2 SRAM, 3 GRX mechanical

Post #21 of 45. Posted by Andy Kessler on 28-Aug-2019 04:26:12 GMT in reply to post #1 [19705<--19735]

Thanks for your thoughts Andy. The smaller cassette for SRAM AXS would tip me that way, and 12 speed for GRX would tip me that way. Both groups aren't quite there. My decision gets harder!

Post #25 of 45. Posted by Ritchie on 29-Aug-2019 17:21:23 GMT in reply to post #21 [19735<--19741]

I’m currently running GRX 1x Di2 11 speed. 36 chainring up front and 11-42 cassette in the back. Don’t miss the 12th gear at all. None of the jumps are that bad. To me the Di2 stuff shifts better than SRAM wireless (faster & more precise), and the Shimano disc brakes are without equal IMO. GRX levers are also more ergonomic, and that easily trumps an extra gear IMO since that is where your hands spend the majority of time during a ride. I understand that wireless for 1x means less cables, but I really do not see it being a meaningful issue. It’s not as if the derailleurs or shifters are mobile by themselves. They are affixed to the bike and the Di2 cable routing/setup is literally a one time deal. It’s not like the difference between a wired versus wireless phone where the wireless phone moves places the wired phone can’t. As for GRX Di2 becoming 12 speed well if Shimano follows their historical pattern then Dura Ace Di2 12 speed will be announced in 2020 and available in early 2021, with some limited release possibly in late 2020 (but unlikely). GRX and Ultegra Di2 12 speed would follow that. There is no way Shimano would offer GRX Di2 in 12 speeds before Dura Ace Di2 becomes 12 speed IMO. That would contradict their entire pricing and marketing structure from D/A on down.

Post #27 of 45. Posted by Steve T on 31-Aug-2019 07:50:09 GMT in reply to post #25 [19741<--19745]

Very interesting Steve, you're tipping me back towards di2 again. The di2 levers look badass, and look to be much nicer braking from the hoods. I'm glad to hear you say the gear jumps aren't too big, as I've only ever ridden 2x so far.

Post #28 of 45. Posted by Ritchie on 01-Sep-2019 13:18:12 GMT in reply to post #27 [19745<--19747]

I still ride 2x on my pure road bikes. But I’m finding that 1x with the right cassette and front ring works well for most off-road type - CX, gravel, and MTB applications. Off-road, the biggest thing is to make sure you have a low enough bottom gear for the toughest climbs you typically encounter (same for road). My experience is that most riders significantly over gear their bikes, and buy gears that in most situations have high end gears they can not push at any reasonable cadence in most situations. I had a friend ask me how I could get by with only a 36 tooth ring up front on my 1x 11-42, 36 ring GRX bike. I told him to go check out a gear calculator. With a 650b or 700x38 tire I can push 27mph at about 100 rpm (a very doable cadence) with the 36x11 gear. When I’m riding off-road when would I ever be pedaling and pushing 27 mph+??? Answer: Seldom if ever!!! Even if I was descending a trail or fire road at that speed (highly unlikely because I value my teeth and brain) if I was approaching that speed I’d most certainly be coasting at that point, not seeking to push a bigger gear and increase my speed further. My advice: buy the group that best fits YOUR needs, particularly things like shifter ergonomics, etc. I really like the Di2 GRX shifter ergonomics, but any 11 speed Di2 shifter will work in a 1x set up with the GRX Di2 rear derailleur since there is no FD possible mismatch to worry about - Dura Ace and Ultegra Di2 shifters are perfectly compatible with the GRX Di2 rear derailleur as far as I know if you prefer those levers (though I have not tried that set up as I’m very happy with the GRX Di2 shifters. If you can test ride them that may help you make a decision.

Post #29 of 45. Posted by Steve T on 01-Sep-2019 20:30:02 GMT in reply to post #28 [19747<--19748]

Hi Guys. Gorgeous bike and congrats on the excellent rollout. I'm thinking about a new saddle and wondering about the feedback on that Fizik. I think that is the Antares open model. What do you think of it?

Post #3 of 45. Posted by Mark Spencer on 24-Aug-2019 13:33:22 GMT in reply to blog [0<--19708]

Hi Mark, I think a saddle is the most individual part on a bike. So I would never recommend a saddle to somebody as it might be good for me but could be horrible for you. I personally like that saddle a lot.

Post #8 of 45. Posted by Andy Kessler on 26-Aug-2019 15:43:00 GMT in reply to blog [0<--19721]

Hi guys! Any update on the de-fender status? Thanks.

Post #10 of 45. Posted by Andrew on 26-Aug-2019 22:57:43 GMT in reply to blog [0<--19723]

Still pushing for the end of the year on that.

Post #15 of 45. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 27-Aug-2019 05:16:09 GMT in reply to post #10 [19723<--19729]

Hi guys, As an Classic U.P. owner I pumped into this...:

https://santamo...Looks quite familiar...

BR,
Tommi K., Finland

Post #18 of 45. Posted by Tommi K. on 28-Aug-2019 03:36:26 GMT in reply to blog [0<--19732]

Hi Tommi, I love this industry.... This is not only our frame but they use also our picture. Actually that was the first studio shot we did with the Classic UP. And if you look at the complete bike price you realise this is to nice to be real...

Post #19 of 45. Posted by Andy Kessler on 28-Aug-2019 04:07:37 GMT in reply to post #18 [19732<--19733]

Bloody copycats...

Post #22 of 45. Posted by Tommi on 28-Aug-2019 04:44:21 GMT in reply to post #19 [19733<--19737]

Hi Andy, Do you know if the UP is compatible with 4iii crankarm powermeters? Is there clearance?

Post #23 of 45. Posted by jeremy friedlander on 28-Aug-2019 13:21:31 GMT in reply to blog [0<--19738]

Hi Jeremy, unfortunately not here is s link to our Powermeter Blog: https://opencyc...-e-r-

Post #26 of 45. Posted by Andy Kessler on 30-Aug-2019 09:57:57 GMT in reply to post #23 [19738<--19742]

Just to clarify, in your post you say the question=46 does NOT work. You meant DOES work, as noted in the video?

Post #30 of 45. Posted by Jeff on 14-Sep-2019 15:16:25 GMT in reply to blog [0<--19758]

That was weird, that should say “eleven forty-six” not “question=46”

Post #31 of 45. Posted by Jeff on 14-Sep-2019 15:17:40 GMT in reply to post #30 [19758<--19759]

Hi Jeff, Shimano says it does not work. I tried and have had people riding it like that and I think it works... So its a grey zone....

Post #32 of 45. Posted by Andy Kessler on 16-Sep-2019 05:28:45 GMT in reply to post #30 [19758<--19760]

Got it. "Officially" it does not work. In reality, it seems to work.... :-)

Post #33 of 45. Posted by Jeff on 16-Sep-2019 13:13:56 GMT in reply to post #32 [19760<--19761]

Hey Andy

Any thoughts on trying the GRX-812 (long cage) with the E13 9-46 rear cassette? I know Shimano doesn't officially support anything bigger than 42t MAX but I wonder if this setup would work similarly to the 11 - 46 you posted in your video. If so, that's kind of the ideal range in my opinion.

Post #34 of 45. Posted by Ash S on 15-Dec-2019 12:28:40 GMT in reply to post #32 [19760<--19945]

Hi Ash, have not tried it yet sorry so hard to say something

Post #35 of 45. Posted by Andy Kessler on 16-Dec-2019 01:38:30 GMT in reply to post #34 [19945<--19946]

Have 40t 11-42 on my 700 I9 ul250 Cx and am tempted to put the 11-46 on a pair of 650 ul250TRA.....any update on how the 11-46 is holding up?
Recommend staying with the 11-42 on the 650 wheels or worth a shot given that the 650s will be used in more pitchy environs?

Post #36 of 45. Posted by Joe Stone on 08-May-2020 17:14:48 GMT in reply to post #35 [19946<--22215]

Hi Joe, I had no problem at all with the 11-46 cassette. I have it also on some demo bikes and nobody ever complained that he did not like shifting performance. Of course on the 46 there is slightly more noise but thats it

Post #37 of 45. Posted by Andy Kessler on 11-May-2020 03:09:54 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22218]

Hi, Do I need the roadlink to use 11-46t on my grx812?

Post #38 of 45. Posted by Sam on 09-Feb-2021 11:13:38 GMT in reply to post #37 [22218<--22941]

Hi Sam, good question. You know according to Shimano this is not working. I ride like the since over a year in all kind of conditions and have no problem with it. Yes if you are on the 46 you hear a bit more noise.. So can you do it without . Yes you can. Would it be better to use a road link..probably

Post #39 of 45. Posted by Andy Kessler on 10-Feb-2021 01:51:06 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22947]

Can i run GRX di2, 48-31 crankset and 11-42T cassette on the WI.DE?

Thanks... trying to figure out my build.

Post #40 of 45. Posted by oliver on 09-Mar-2021 14:46:25 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22987]

Hi Oliver, The WI.DE is 1x only...you can do that on an UP or UPPER.

Post #41 of 45. Posted by Andy Kessler on 10-Mar-2021 04:37:37 GMT in reply to post #40 [22987<--22988]

Why are my GRX Di2 1X shifter/brake hoods different sizes? My builder is at a loss as to why Shimano sent him this asymmetrical set. Plus, it’s driving me crazy to not have the same hoods. Whey’s up?

Post #42 of 45. Posted by Miko on 01-Jul-2021 00:13:08 GMT in reply to blog [0<--23209]

I meant, what’s up?

Post #43 of 45. Posted by Miko on 01-Jul-2021 00:14:22 GMT in reply to post #42 [23209<--23210]

Hi Miko, send me a picture by mail. the only thing that I could think of that you have a mechanical shifter on the left and the DI2 on the right...

Post #44 of 45. Posted by Andy Kessler on 01-Jul-2021 09:34:48 GMT in reply to blog [0<--23213]

Thanks, Andy. That could be the case. That would mean that the DI2 shifter/hood cover is smaller (less upturn) than the mechanical hood. I thought all GRX hoods would have that same pronounced upturned hood, regardless of whether running mechanical or DI2.

Post #45 of 45. Posted by Miko on 01-Jul-2021 14:43:36 GMT in reply to post #44 [23213<--23214]